When a musician adopts a new persona, they forge a new world – an aesthetic, mood, and lexicon. The creative potential is immense, the rewards equally profound. For María Zardoya, frontwoman of The Marías, that world has long been one of velvet noirpop, saturated in dreamlike sounds and cinematic drama. But behind that carefully composed curtain, something more personal was taking shape – Zardoya’s newly announced solo project: Not For Radio.

With a new Marías record also in motion, Not For Radio is born from an urge to untangle her own voice and lean into a more instinct-led process; entering the studio without pre-formed music, tracing the contours of her inner world in real time. That notion – of surrendering to instinct and embracing presence – sits at the heart of this conversation between Zardoya and actor-musician Sophie Thatcher. Known for channelling visceral vulnerability throughout her filmography – most recently, Heretic, Companion, and Nicolas Winding Refn’s upcoming Her Private Hell – Thatcher is also carving her own musical world, contributing towards film scores and releasing her debut EP, Pivot & Scrape, in 2024. Together, Zardoya and Thatcher are kindred spirits: searching for intimacy, listening to Cocteau Twins.

María Zardoya: Hey!

Sophie Thatcher: Hey, are you still in Chicago?
María: No, I’m in Los Angeles.

Sophie: How was Lollapalooza? It looked insane. You’ve played it before, right?
María: Yeah, we did it three years ago, but on a much smaller stage. Then we did it a couple of days ago and, from the stage, there was this big hill right in front of us that we couldn’t see over, so I just thought it was the people in front of the hill. I was like, “Oh, this is chill.” Then this video surfaced of the actual crowd on the other side of the hill. [laughs] I was like, “This is insane!” I’m just so grateful. It’s crazy because after that performance I went back to my hotel, watched Sex and the City, and I got a noise complaint. [both laugh] It must’ve been a really Samantha-heavy episode.

Sophie: That’s so funny!
María: What’s your guilty pleasure TV?

Sophie: Oh god, South Park. It’s always playing in hotel rooms, so that’s what I’ll watch to wind down.
María: I love that.

Sophie: We’ve been following each other for a couple of years, and I’m such a huge fan. I’m trying to think of the moment [we first connected]. I feel like you’ve always been there, and I’ve always been so aware of you. I saw you as this modern-day Mazzy Star – and I mean that as the highest compliment, because Mazzy Star is god to me. [laughs] But you’ve taken it to a more cinematic level.
María: Thank you! I just love your style and the projects you’ve been a part of. You’re a huge style inspiration for me – and my stylist.

Sophie: That’s so sweet! I feel like we have similar music tastes. What’s an artist or band that you found by yourself, without the influence of other people, and you were like, “This is my own thing”? I think that’s always a really pivotal moment, when you find something by yourself.
María: Honestly, recently – obviously I’ve known of Cocteau Twins, the lore and everything – but it wasn’t until one afternoon when I was like, “I’m going to listen to their entire discography from start to finish.” And I was like, “Oh, I get it now.” It was incredible. I brought the guitar tones into the studio when recording the new Marías album.

Sophie: I totally hear that influence. It’s a little bit more dream pop, it’s not exactly shoegazey – there’s a fine line, because Cocteau Twins is a little bit more experimental, melodic, whereas shoegaze is a little bit more… Depressing. [laughs]
María: One hundred percent. And then I learned that they were a couple and then they broke up, and I was like, “OK, I can relate to that.” But she also made up a language…

Sophie: Oh yeah, that’s the best part of the Cocteau Twins lore.
María: Like, wow!

“I can’t consume darkness, but I’m very attracted to it.”

Sophie: It’s otherworldly.
María: Truly. What about you?

Sophie: Honestly, the same. When I was fourteen I had a Tumblr dedicated to shoegaze and my picture was of Cocteau Twins. I spent hours on the computer researching, I was such a computer kid. My Bloody Valentine was another, I was heavily into shoegaze. Elliott Smith, obviously. Elliott Smith was someone I found by myself, which was very special and I kind of stuck with that. You have a quality to your singing that is the same that he had, where it feels so intimate and vulnerable. Like you’re whispering into someone’s ear to tell them a secret. A lot of people try to pull that off, but with you it feels really beautiful and genuine. It’s cool to hear how your sound has shifted.
María: Yeah, I feel like it’s shifted a lot, even with this new album that we’re working on. My new solo project [Not For Radio] has taught me so much in terms of making music. The whole intention of Not For Radio was to make music fully in the moment. I didn’t go in with any pre-written songs, any pre-written ideas. I just went in like, “Guys, this is a leap of faith because we’ve never worked together in the same room before. I want us to be in the moment. I don’t even want us to think about writing the songs, just write whatever is in the moment.”

Sophie: That’s beautiful.
María: All of us have pop sensibility, so structurally they don’t sound too stream-of-consciousness, but in the moment it definitely felt like that. It was just words and sounds that came out – we weren’t second-guessing anything. I brought that way of working into the new Marías album. What about you, when you go into the studio do you go in with pre-existing ideas or are you more in the moment?

Sophie: I was just going to say, I love your point of view about being in the moment. I think the most important thing is trusting your intuition. Even going back to Cocteau Twins making their own language – that’s coming from the most raw, intuitive place. When I make music, it always comes from improvisation, because I’m not specifically trained in any way. It’s always very meditative – I’ll usually see what comes out of my mouth and then work around that.
María: Exactly.

Sophie: Because whatever comes out of your mouth is the most honest thing. I’m curious how you go about that with lyrics?
María: It’s like how you go about it. The melody and lyrics come out at the same time. Sometimes it feels like it just comes out of nowhere, like I have this little elf on my shoulder. [both laugh]

Sophie: I love that.
María: This little songstress elf. It’s like, how did this even happen? It literally came out of thin air, and now it exists in this song that people are going to listen to and sing and make a part of their life. It’s pretty trippy. But at the same time, I always say: garbage in, garbage out. In terms of what you consume, what you read, how you spend your free time, it’s what you’re going to put out into your art, into the world. So even though it happens randomly in the moment, it’s a culmination of everything that you’re ingesting.

Sophie: What were some references for the new music that helped build the world?
María: Honestly, it wasn’t so much specific references, it was more spending time in nature and trying to wake up and be fully in the moment. Seeing how the light reflects on the leaves, how it takes shape on the branches. The textures of wood and the colours of the tree trunks. Just being more open and awake when I’m outside. I find that helps a lot when I’m writing music, because it’s an exercise in being in the moment. When writing, you can’t overthink. You have to be fully present in terms of what you’re feeling, what you’re hearing with the chords, the tonality. Because like you, I’m not classically trained in music. I know how to play guitar and piano for the sake of writing, but I’m not going to play on a recording – I’ll leave that to someone else. [both laugh] But we know what sounds good, which chords sound work together. You don’t have to be classically trained to hear that.

Sophie: It’s taste, it’s intuition.
María: Exactly, and I feel like intuition is heightened when you try to be as present as possible. Sophie: In every sense. I feel like that applies to every art form, specifically acting. It’s so easy to just go through the motions, to dissociate. Although, maybe this is toxic to say, but sometimes it helps to be a person away from yourself. It can be very different with acting where it’s this out-of-body thing. María: With acting, is it more helpful to be present and intuitive, or…

Sophie: It depends on the project, it depends on the role.
María: You recently did a horror movie, right?

Sophie: Always. [both laugh]
María: I’ll be honest, I can’t watch horror. But I want to watch it so bad, and I love the artwork that they used for the film, it’s so intriguing.

Sophie: Yeah, it’s edgy. Stylistically, it’s interesting, but it is dark. Have you ever thought about doing soundtracks?
María: Oh yeah, for sure.

Sophie: I can totally see that for you because you have such a vast soundscape and it’s always so atmospheric. What would be your ideal movie [to soundtrack]?
María: A drama of some sort –not a horror…

Sophie: [laughs] Although they are fun to score.
María: I know, but I can’t even read a description of a horror movie. I’ve got a little bit better. So, I think it’d have to be a drama. Garden State is like, my favourite movie.

Sophie: I love that movie! What’re some of your other favs?
María: The Double Life of Veronique.

Sophie: Oh my god, visually – I had the image of her and the puppet as the screensaver on my phone for a really long time. It’s such a beautiful score, that’s an amazing reference.
María: I also love this movie called Mauvais Sang, I think it translates to ‘bad blood’.

Sophie: Oh yeah, Leos Carax.
María: I love that one.

Sophie: That’s one of my favourite Juliette Binoche films.
María: Yes, I love her.

Sophie: The Lovers on the Bridge, too. It’s the same two actors [Juliette Binoche and Denis Lavant].
María: I think that’s the extent of darkness I can take in film.

“I’d love to collaborate with Pedro Almodóvar. I’d love to see what it’d be like to make a music video together.”

Sophie: Oh totally, and that’s incredibly dark. It’s psychological and a different kind of upsetting, which is almost worse in a way. It’s more heady.
María: Companion was a horror movie, right? How did you get into character to play a character like that? I feel like both of us have this level of darkness as part of our DNA.

Sophie: Absolutely. A vulnerability, I think.
María: I’m really attracted to darkness. I can’t consume darkness, but I’m very attracted to it. Did you have to disassociate for this movie?

Sophie: It was kind of like that. It was still intuitive, but being a person away from yourself. I think that’s interesting when you go out-of-body for your job. I don’t know if you ever feel this on stage, this feeling of disassociating, or not being fully present. I’m curious – sorry to totally shift it to you, I’m like, “Don’t talk about me” [laughs] – what has it been like performing for bigger crowds? Whether you get anxiety, and how you stay present, especially on tour – how has that been since you guys have totally blown up? And again, seeing that Lollapalooza video, I watched it like, “Oh my god, that’s crazy! It’s beautiful, but it’s crazy to see.”
María: Honestly, the best thing that ever happened with that… I think it was two-and-a-half years ago, I was featured on the Bad Bunny record, and it became so huge in Latin America, and all over the world. After that album, he started touring stadiums and invited me to perform with him on five or six stadium shows, which are like 70, 80,000 people.

Sophie: [laughs] No, no, no.
María: I know! At that point I had no experience of performing to a crowd even remotely that size, so I was a nervous wreck. I was having panic attacks at the time…

Sophie: I’m like shaking for you. [both laugh]
María: Before I was about to go on stage I was like, “No, I can’t do this.” I told my manager, “I can’t do this.” She was like, “You’ll be fine.” And then [Bad Bunny announced], “And.. The Marías!” And I had to walk out like, “Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.” But, after every stadium performance I did, it became a little bit easier.

Sophie: And you got through it.
María: I got through it. I did it. As uncomfortable and anxiety-inducing as it was. I feel like I built so much resilience. I’m so grateful for those shows and experiences. Now any venue we perform at, I tell myself, “Oh, this isn’t Yankee Stadium, I’m gooood.” [both laugh]

“The whole intention was to make music fully in the moment.”

Sophie: How crazy to start there.
María: So that’s honestly what has prepared me for big crowds. What about you? It’s different with film because you’re on set in front of a lot of people, but more than that, once you’re done with a project and you release it into the world, then so many people are viewing it, consuming it, having opinions about it. How do you deal with being able to let go of that? Essentially, it’s the same as performing on stage, you’re just detached…

Sophie: Which is great. [laughs] I can detach because I’m always playing a character, not myself. Of course, parts of myself will bleed into a character, there will be ticks, there will be hyperspecific things that come from Sophie. But at the end of the day, I didn’t write the script, it’s a collaborative process and I did everything I could. There’s something kind of beautiful about not having full control all the time. Whereas with music, I want that, which is more nerve-wracking. Do you find that you’ve cultivated a character, or are you just trying to be as much you as possible?
María: I think I’m trying to be as much me as possible, but I’m like, maybe I could… [laughs] to make it easier. I do get really sensitive when people are like, “I didn’t like this or that,” because to your point, it’s like, well that’s me. But if I had a character, I’d be more detached. But whatever, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Sophie: Do you have any dream collaborators that you’d want to work with, alive or dead?
María: Oh my god, I’d love to collaborate with Pedro Almodóvar. I’d love to see what it’d be like to make a music video together.

Sophie: You could score one of his movies – let’s put that out into the world.
María: That would be incredible. How about you?

Sophie: I mean, it used to be, of course, David Lynch, but he passed and that was hard for literally everyone. It always goes back to Elliott Smith, he’s where everything started. Not just music, but acting, you access that vulnerability through listening to something so fucking vulnerable.
María: You can find ways to collaborate with the essence of them and what they’ve left behind.

Sophie: You said that you’re trying to be more in tune with nature, when you have downtime do you meditate? How do you wind down? Sex and the City is a good therapeutic show – it’s got me through a lot of break-ups! [laughs]
María: Same!

Sophie: Girls too, and Gilmore Girls – have you seen it?
María: My friend recently got me onto Gilmore Girls, she said it’s a good show to watch in the fall.

Sophie: Yes.
María: I meditate in the mornings when I wake up. But you can literally meditate at any time of the day, it’s just a way of being present. So really you can meditate by looking at a tree, or flowers, or just right now. I feel like it’s a way of life and seeing the world. I know that David Lynch was really into transcendental meditation. It’s really helpful for artists because you think of meditation as like, a guided meditation, something you take twenty minutes out of your day to do, and then you’re done. But no, it’s a training and it’s something you can do at any time of the day. It’s the practice of being awake.

Sophie: I place so much emphasis on this. I tried the David Lynch kind, and that brought me further into a panic. I think it’s just about letting yourself go. That’s why I asked you, because you seem so in tune – it’s very inspiring.
María: Sometimes meditating or doing a guided meditation will make me anxious, but I feel like the intention behind doing a meditation isn’t about trying to calm your nervous system. Whether you’re anxious or chill, it’s fine, because it’s a process of becoming more in tune.

Sophie: Just letting it be.
María: It’s like what they say, you’re not your thoughts, you’re an observer of your thoughts. Or something like that. [both laugh] How about you, what do you do to centre yourself?

Sophie: I like drawing. Sometimes it’s out-of-body, sometimes it’s incredibly inwards. I try not to let it be too technical, more free-form.
María: What do you like drawing?

Sophie: It’ll start with a face and it’ll evolve into something else. I used references for a while but I don’t anymore. It’s about following intuition. I’m trying to rid myself of always wanting a finished product. It’s like, this can just be my journal, it can be my thoughts and it doesn’t have to actually mean anything. Growing up with Instagram and everything, you expect a finished product, to put things out, to prove yourself – you’re constantly proving that you’re busy and you’re worth something. That’s going against anything genuine, so I’m trying to rid myself of that, of judgment. I like gaming, I’m in Chicago right now with my family, but I’m going back to Nichols Canyon to play the new Silent Hill game – which is meditative, too! [laughs]
María: It is!

hair and make-up LETICIA LLESMIN using YSL BEAUTY; photography assistant MICHAEL IRWIN; fashion assistants HANNAH LOEWEN and DHARA PHATEL

Not For Radio’s debut record ‘Melt’ is out now.