Roger Kumble’s 1999 teen drama Cruel Intentions – based on Pierre Choderlos de Laclos’ 1782 novel Les Liaisons Dangereuses – luxuriates in sexual machinations, scandal and salacious scheming. 25 years on from Kumble’s 90s cult classic, Cruel Intentions is being brought to a 21st-century audience. Zac Burgess lies at the epicentre of Phoebe Fisher and Sara Goodman’s series as Lucien Belmont, one half of the step-sibling duo whose social status at a prestigious Washington D.C. college hangs in the balance. Tasked with seducing the Vice President’s daughter Annie, played by Savannah Lee Smith, Burgess’ character is a far cry from the Australian actor’s previous standout role in Boy Swallows Universe. Together, Burgess and Smith’s version of Cruel Intentions examines the modern-day trappings of class, obsession and desire.

Savannah Lee Smith: Well hey, long time no see! Are you back in LA?
Zac Burgess: Back in LA and re-acclimatising, trying to get over the jet lag. [laughs]

SLS: I wanted to start by asking how the acting industry in Australia compares
to the US because that’s something I know nothing about. Is there anything that is really different?
ZB: I’d say the biggest difference would probably be terminology. We have different references for different areas within theindustry, especially departments. The funniest thing was sitting there listening to the camera team saying, “Hey can we swing in this apple box?” Whereas in Australia we have funny names for them like sushi rolls.

SLS: You guys love your nicknames, that’s something I’ve noticed.
ZB: It’s a big part of the culture. [laughs]

SLS: The other night we talked about you working on the farm and your car, but I didn’t get to pry that much, how is that going?
ZB: It’s going good. We finished up [filming] and I was like, “Let’s relax for a minute,” then a week or two went by and I was itching to do something. So, I started working on the farm again just chopping down a lot of trees, milling them into fence posts and building fence lines, getting that active lifestyle back. I bought a truck – or a ute as we call them in Australia – and started building that. I also started doing some disability support work for people in my community just to reach back out.

SLS: That’s amazing.
ZB: What about you? Tell me about what you’ve done.

SLS: After we wrapped I filmed a movie called The Upside of Unrequited this summer in Maryland, it was a quick shoot for me but it was really fun. I made some friends and I got to work with a sister duo who were the writers and directors so that was really cool to be part of, I’ve never worked with a directing duo. It was a collaborative, creative process. Then I went back to LA, I moved into a new place and I found out I’m going to be an aunt. I’m just focusing on family right now, I think it’s important for us when we have the time to get back to our roots and real life because we could be back on set again in a second.
ZB: Absolutely, I can’t agree more. Family is one of the most important things in this world.

SLS: What’s coming up next for you? Have you had any auditions you’re excited about? Or any personal projects? I know you’re a writer.
ZB: There have been a few things, I’ve got a couple of projects in the pipeline that we’re
waiting to get some clarity on and fingers crossed they come to fruition. I came together with one of my all-time best friends back in Australia and decided our big goal is that we’re going to put a production together and do a feature. So that’s the goal for next year if we get time, we’ve started writing, we’ve got some premises down.

SLS: That’s awesome. Remember me when you get to the casting process.
ZB: [Zac laughs] I’ll have to put a few phone calls in! What about yourself?

SLS: We’re always taping, always auditioning, always meeting new people and there’s a lot of good stuff that’ll be coming out that I’m excited to see. I’ve just been hunkering down doing that. You know me, I’m trying to do music. I have to eventually, I’m finally going to meet with some producers in LA, get in the studio and see how that goes. Hopefully, by this time next year, I will at least have something out. I’ve returned to my love for music in this hiatus, I’ve gotten back into it so that’s my focus right now.
ZB: That’s one thing I love about you, your passion, desire and drive for music. It’s within your bones and DNA. What’s one of the most memorable experiences that you have from working on the set of Cruel [Intentions]?

SLS: That was the question I was just about to ask. [both laugh] A few came to mind but there is one that stands out. There’s a scene that involves a pool, a slippery floor, some stairs and running and I fell pretty hard. If it wasn’t for you it could’ve been way worse. I don’t know what happened to you but you just switched into this autopilot superhero mode and you pretty much saved my life.
ZB: That was an experience. I think you’re the second actress that’s tried to kill me – unintentionally. [both laugh]

SLS: Why’s everyone trying to kill you?!
ZB: There’s a dark past. [both laugh] That was a very memorable moment I have to
say. For me, it was how quickly we synced, you took all of my banter which I seriously appreciated. I had all this excess energy and this character was evolving inside me. It was nice to be able to throw those things back and forth between takes to let loose, I really enjoyed that.

“With every character that I come to play, somewhere along the line I have to find a part of myself that I can either amplify or reduce.”

SLS: I think that’s one of the things I appreciate about you, not only as a friend, but as an actor and a coworker, you have a really good ability to drop in. Your character is a little conceited; he’s playful, to say the least, and you are definitely playful in your own personality. I did notice very quickly when we would drop into a scene you were just there and then as soon as we cut it was back to the silly banter. [both laugh] We had a really fun experience on set because it took some of the pressure off and, as an actor, it makes my job more fun and easier when we can just bounce off of each other.
ZB: I agree, you were one of the reasons I was able to make it through most days on set, just being able to have that freedom to breathe and having the rapport that we had, and continue to have, is really grounding.

SLS: I’m interested in balance, because I think that finding balance is something I struggle with personally, the fact that we’re working day in and day out doing ten-hour days non-stop for four months at a time, then it’s over and there are three or four months of not doing that anymore. I’m like, “Where’s my routine?” I struggle with that, how do you navigate that?
ZB: I’m extremely fortunate that I have a wonderful, supportive partner who keeps me focused and grounded, and helps me understand if things are important or not. I generally have a good compass on that but sometimes when you’re enthralled within those situations it’s a little bit hard to differentiate where to put your focus. The best thing for me when I’m creating balance is exercise and staying active because if I’m active my brain is not overthinking. I’m extremely lucky that I get to go back home and work on a farm, to be able to have that vast amount of space is just the best. If ever I am in those situations where I’m overthinking or I’ve got all these things running through my mind I’m fortunate that I have the opportunity to speak about them as well.

SLS: You are a very active person, I remember that on set too, looking over and seeing you doing push-ups in the green room. [both laugh]
ZB: You’ve got to try and get those reps in before you go on camera.

SLS: You do have your shirt off a lot in the show so I’m sure people will be excited to see that.
ZB: Yeah, we’ll see. [laughs] Did you find yourself implementing different things into your daily life when we finished, or did you find that there were things you could implement while we were filming as well that helped you with routine? It’s really difficult jumping from shooting during the day and then all of a sudden having to do night shoots the next day for a week.

SLS: Music has always been something to bring me back to myself. Anything that I’m feeling, whether it’s good or bad or neutral, music can help round things out for me. If I’m overwhelmed or if I’m stressed, I know what songs to listen to to get me out of it or put me in a place where I’m motivated to figure it out. When I’m feeling down, I have music that I will listen to on purpose to lift me up, playlists are a really important thing because you can use them whenever you want and they’re never going to change. I think that routine is something I realised on the set of Cruel, I was going back to the same music over and over again. I was like, “Am I just obsessed with these songs?” But I realised it was deeper than that, it was keeping me grounded and bringing me back to myself.
ZB: I do fondly remember us both sitting there with headphones on just zoning out everything that was happening around us because there was so much chaos.

SLS: People would be like, “Are they OK?” We were just like, “Oh we’re chillin’, we’re good.”
ZB: Absolutely. How do you differentiate yourself between characters? Something that tripped me up was seeing you be able to shift between the two. You’re such a wonderful actress, you would really get me into the zone and into the flow, then when we’d just back out of it I’d be like, “Wow, that is such a big differentiation.” [both laugh]

SLS: Well, thank you. Annie’s [Savannah’s character in Cruel Intentions] different from myself but I feel like I do relate to her in that I see myself in her when I was her age and in her situation. When I was eighteen, fresh in college I was a bit overwhelmed, thrust into this new city and new world. That’s why it was exciting for me to play her because I got to go back in time and bring those feelings and perspectives that I had when I was a freshman in college to set now that I’m 24. The shift is the fun part, and I think that’s something you can relate to. I think you do have similarities to Lucien [Zac’s character in in Cruel Intentions], but not really. [both laugh] You guys are very different in the way that you think. How do you feel? Do you feel you relate at all to Lucien?
ZB: That’s tricky, with every character that I come to play, somewhere along the line I have to find a part of myself that I can either amplify or reduce. So with every character, there is an element of me in there in varying depths and from that, I get to be able to work with different breadths and strokes to figure out who the character is. In terms of similarities, there’s nothing I can pinpoint.

SLS: What about Boy Swallows Universe? I loved it, you’re amazing. What was it like getting into that character?
ZB: That’s very kind of you to say. That character was a fair bit similar to me, especially as it was an Australian project it was easy for me to relate to a lot of the content even though a fair bit of it is the 80s. [laughs] All those cultural touchstones and those things that people can relate to watching it from their upbringings are still very strong within Australia. There were parts of the story that were very close to my upbringing so I think trying to differentiate the character from myself became difficult at times but I had wonderful support so I was able to navigate that.

SLS: Well, it turned out beautifully.
ZB: Thank you. Speaking of other stories, what kind of stories do you like?

SLS: I like a lot of different types of stories, I feel like that type of person who, when they’re asked what kind of music they listen to, they’re like, “I listen to every genre.” [laughs] I don’t want to sound like that girl. More often than not I’m drawn to stories that I feel are grounded, whether or not they come from a true story or not, if I can walk away feeling like they came from a real place from the people who made it, that’s a palpable feeling and I feel like usually, we can tell. I also love stories that leave me thinking, that leave me with more questions than I had coming in, because then it feels like an extension. I got to watch this piece or experience this project and now I feel like I’m still in it because it gave me so many things to think about. I also love stories that tell me things I never knew and show me worlds I wouldn’t have otherwise been exposed to. What about you?
ZB: I’m sort of along the same vein. I love projects that are tangible, they’re raw, they’re full of emotions, they’re there for a reason and they’re telling a story. I love things that are able to reach into other people’s lives and allow them to experience the same thing you’re trying to convey and being able to create change. I think those are the most important things for me. If I’m able to tell a story and someone can be lost in whatever world we’ve created for just a couple of minutes and forget about their own life, I think that’s the most beautiful gift you can be given as a storyteller.

SLS: Talking of stories that create change, what work right now do you think is really important? Is there a specific genre or specific theme that you feel is important to the modern day?
ZB: I definitely think Cruel has a place in that, it’s pushing a lot of boundaries.

SLS: It is. [both laugh]
ZB: It’s stopping rules from coming to fruition and I think that’s important, being able to break the rules, to identify yourself in the way you want to be identified and create havoc somehow in your world.

SLS: I agree with you, when we think about the quintessential pillars of art that have created change, or that we remember as a huge moment, it’s usually because they were breaking rules. When we push boundaries we usually get something really beautiful or at least very memorable in terms of cultural significance. Cruel definitely pushes some boundaries and I think people will like that part of it, it’s important right now too because I think people are very aware of everything that they say and how they’re supposed to think. We’re not a monolith, art isn’t a monolith, society isn’t a monolith, we have all these different ideas and perspectives. When you can show the vast range of perspectives and ideas in one project it’s going to be exciting to watch and I think Cruel definitely does some of that.
ZB: Absolutely. It’s important to push the boundaries and not be so quick to put others down because of an opinion they have. Cruel definitely touches on being able to express things in a way that doesn’t allow judgment to interfere.

SLS: And it doesn’t influence how the piece of work is perceived. Cruel does a really good job of being unapologetically itself and I think that’s something people are craving and will resonate with. In terms of pieces of work that have given you that feeling as a viewer, are there any you can remember that have been culturally important or have burned a hole in your brain?
ZB: One of them was a film in Australia a couple of years ago called Satellite Boy. It navigates the world of the Indigenous community within Australia and it burned a hole in my brain. I always think about it, it isa wonderful film. Is there anything you feel like is a wonderful reference?

“I love projects that are tangible, they’re raw, they’re full of emotions, they’re there for a reason and they’re telling a story.”

SLS: I saw Emilia Pérez with Zoe Saldana and Kvarla Gascón recently and I’ve never had a film change my life so quickly.The other reference that comes to mind is Everything Everywhere All at Once, which is a film I still think about to this day but Emilia Pérez blew my mind in the best ways possible. There are so many themes in the film that give way to anyone from any walk of life, resonating with at least one of them, and I think that’s an incredibly impressive thing to do when
you have two hours and fifteen minutes. That one definitely burned a hole in my brain. More specifically, what about people? Is there anyone you admire or respect?ZB: That one’s difficult for me, I tend to stay so far out of the industry when I’m not actively involved in it. I’ve had some of my team ask me, “Who do you look up to?” And I have absolutely no idea. [laughs]

SLS: That’s a valid answer. It’s all a new creation for us, it’s about what we can bring to a character to make it our own. I never go into something wanting to be like a person or have their trajectory, I want to see what I can do with it and make it a new thing. So, when people ask me about references I’m like, “Me?” [laughs]
ZB: I love that, I might have to steal that.

SLS: I remember on set talking about how important family is to us and family dynamics, most of your references come from the people in your personal life and that’s just as good of an answer as some A-list actor that you look up to. The answer could be my mum, the answer could be my cousin and that’s just as valid.
ZB: I love that and I appreciate that. What are your interests outside of the industry, apart from music?

SLS: Music would definitely be the main thing, I’m very connected to music in a deep way and I have a lot of history with it. Being from LA and growing up there, the homeless epidemic was very obvious to me and unavoidable and clear. That’s a cause I really care about, I want to get into some philanthropic work and that’s going to be a main focus. What about you?
ZB: That’s beautiful, that’s a tough answer to come back from. Homelessness was a massive shock for me coming to the States because it’s everywhere and you can see it whereas in Australia it’s less frequent and a lot of times it’s hidden. That is something I’m going to be exploring a lot from here forward. I love four-wheel driving, I know that’s a big pivot. [laughs]

SLS: Tell me about that.
ZB: I think you call it overlanding in the States. It’s taking your trucks and modifying them so you can drive on tough terrain, I’ve built mine out so I can live in it anywhere. It’s something I love to do as much as I can.

SLS: This was one of the first conversations we had when we got picked up to go and have a stunt rehearsal. We were looking at the cars and I think you pointed out a certain truck and I was like, “Hold on, you’re a car guy.” [both laugh] Does that hobby allow you to focus on one thing and zone everything out? Or is it pure fun?
ZB: It’s absolutely both. The wonderful thing about cars is they are black and white whereas life is not, there is one way for that car to be pulled apart and there is one way to put that car back together. It brings a certainty to my life having such an uncertain career where I’m unsure whether I’m going to be working next week, let alone the next five years. It brings a lot of solitude and grounding into my life. When you come to Australia we’ll go to the farm and we’ll go on a big old camping trip.

SLS: It’s a plan. Was there a specific experience where you knew that this was what you wanted to do? Did you debate doing it or did you know?
ZB: I think it’s a constant debate. [both laugh]

SLS: That’s so real.
ZB: Every single job I’ve ever done has given me the same answer over and over again because of the feelings that come up, and it is that I absolutely want to do this for the rest of my life for as long as I can. I love the people I get to meet through this, I love the emotions I get to express on set, it can be more valuable than a therapist because I can delve into certain situations or certain feelings and express them in one form or another. That’s been one of the most important things for me. There’s no one moment in my life but it’s recurring frequently.

SLS: Same for me, man.

Interview originally published in The HERO Winter Annual 2024. 

GROOMING FERNANDO MIRANDA;
PHOTOGRAPHY ASSISTANT LEWIS STEVENSON