Kiernan Shipka has been swept up in tornados and glitter recently. This summer she was caught in the eye of Lee Isaac Chung’s disaster blockbuster, Twisters, next it’s the Vegas Strip as a member of Gia Coppola’s upcoming film, The Last Showgirl. For an actor so well-versed in worlds that glisten between reality and fantasy and an auteur whose movies are composed with a painterly shimmer, each frame worthy of a story of its own, the Shipka-Coppola combo absolutely clicks.

Flickering between the bright lights and harsh reality of America’s Sin City, The Last Showgirl introduces us to Jodie – a dancer in Le Razzle Dazzle – learning the industry with guidance from Pamela Anderson’s Shelly, a seasoned dancer who must plan for life once the show ends. Between these extremes, you’ll see Shipka as a freaky Longlegs survivor, and in this year’s wildest Christmas movie, Red One, alongside Chris Evans, Lucy Liu and J. K. Simmons. Six months after wrapping The Last Showgirl, Shipka and Coppola reunite in-conversation to double check it wasn’t all a Vegas dream…

Gia Coppola: Hi, Kiernan.
Kiernan Shipka: Hi! Are you in New York?

GC: I’m in New York, at my grandpa’s apartment, it has some interesting decor. [laughs]
KS: I like it, it’s a strong backdrop.

GC: I’m excited to see you.
KS: I know! I can’t believe it’s been almost six months.

GC: I know, crazy. It feels like a weird dream because we did it so fast. I remember coming home and being like, “Wait? Did we make a movie?” [laughs]
KS: Well, you made it feel like that. I was talking about it with a friend and, once I get on the topic of [The Last] Showgirl train I just can’t stop talking about it because it was so fun.

GC: It was so fun, can we just do it all again?
KS: I know! I miss the Rio [hotel in Las Vegas]!

GC: I miss Vegas so much. Everyone thinks I’m crazy but I loved it.
KS: I loved it, too. I had to let myself lean into the fact I was living in Vegas for a month.

GC: You stayed the whole time.
KS: It felt right to do.

GC: You were my Vegas travel almanac for where to get off the strip food.
KS: I’ve now sent my list across to several people who were like, “We’re going for a show, we’re not going to go to some random coffee shop.” And I’m like, “No, you have to! It’s really good!” [laughs]

“My favourite moments I’ve had as an actor have been the ones that have surprised me”

GC: You’re good at finding the places to go.
KS: I try, I think it’s my way into a city when I want to discover a new place and feel connected with it. I do find that when I’m doing memory work, back story work for a character, somehow a food memory always makes its way into the mix as an emotional tool.

GC: That’s so interesting.
KS: For the project I’m currently working on, there’s a really specific thing in my head that is food-related. It’s a memory that has nothing really to do with the character, but I think there’s something very strong about a food memory. There’s an evocative quality to it.

GC: I remember my grandpa telling me that when he did The Godfather rehearsals he made them all sit down and make dinner. He put [Marlon] Brando at the head of the table and they all naturally assigned their rank and roles by how they sat at the table. My aunt Talia [Shire] was serving food and Al Pacino was in the middle, or something. He always said, when in doubt, have everyone cooking dinner or making food in some way. And we did that, actually.
KS: We did.

GC: Pamela [Anderson] just made it all for us. [both laugh]
KS: Pamela pretty much did all the work, we came over and ate the cookie dough. I remember that cookie dough was so, so good, by the time we were eating the beautiful vegetable soup I was like, “I think I’ve already done what needed to be done here.” [laughs] It was really fun, cooking with people is a deeply bonding activity.

GC: What would you say Jodie’s food memory was?
KS: I created this memory of her coming home after a really long night post-show, changing into sweats, heating up a microwave burrito and eating it alone in a dark apartment.

GC: Did you actually eat a small microwave burrito?
KS: No I didn’t… I mean, I’ve done that plenty [laughs], but it was just running in my headspace when I was thinking about what she’d get up to outside of the movie. That was one of the things that was so compelling and also challenging about this film, you’re coming in at a very hot time in everyone’s life – there was so much unsaid. I had so much fun [creating] the backstory because there was so much room.

GC: She was a fun character. That’s what’s so fun for me too, you guys running with it and filling in so much more than I can even imagine.
KS: The older I get and the more awareness I have, the more the level of trust I have with the director affects the experience. The trust with the actors, the director, the crew, that is the ultimate key for me. You created a set that was so full of that, it allowed everyone to make work that was vulnerable or that scared them because there wasn’t any sort of fear. If a take didn’t work, it was just, “We tried it and now we’re going to try something else.”

GC: That’s really nice. Vice versa, to trust the actors and feel trusted by you like that goes such a long way. It was a really refreshing and enjoyable shoot – I was having fun the whole time.
KC: I loved how familial and small it felt… It’s one of those experiences where I go, “Oh right, there’s a movie now.” [laughs] Of course you know that because you’ve lived with it after. It does truly feel like a dream to me.

GC: I think that’s why I was sad it was over, like, “OK, now I really have to do the work and sit alone with it and build it.” But it’s nice to see you all again in the edit space.
KS: Aw, how has it been going?

GC: It’s good, I’m starting to move into all the sound stuff now, so hopefully soon we’ll share it. I feel like you’re always busy. Are you shooting now?
KS: I’m actually about a week away from being done on something here in LA. I had a little night shoot last night but it’s not too bad, we’re doing splits, one-to-one almost. It’s really nice to film here in LA and go home at the end of the night.

GC: How do you navigate that work-life balance?
KS: I think it was post-Sabrina and pre-anything else, I was talking to a mentor of mine and said, “What are the things I can be doing to become more expansive in my work and always consistently learn and grow?” I was completely expecting, “Work on this play,” or, “Do this monologue,” but she took the alternative route, which was, “You have to go live your life, be a person and experience what it’s like to be a person in the world. Go get your heart broken and get mad at this person, feel this way and that way, because that’s so valuable for the work you do.” That’s always stuck with me. Not to say that the technical stuff isn’t also amazing and really helpful, but I guess the work-life balance works for me because I tell myself that even if I’m not always on a set, I’m always learning about myself and that will feed into my work. I do love being on a set…

GC: You were raised on it.
KS: Yeah, I have so many formative memories working [on set], even as a kid I loved it. The cadence of this job is so funny, I feel like if I’m not working for a month or two I start to get a bit angsty and want to be working again. The thing that helps me ride at whatever cadence I’m working at, because it’s always in flux, is this idea that I am working every day. Maybe it’s me trying to trick myself a bit, but approaching life with this eye to learning about myself, my feelings, and other people helps me when I get a little bit angsty.

GC: It’s hard to take out the pressure of, “What am I going to be creating next? What fulfils me?” You’re always searching and need to remind yourself to be present – that’s when the best work arrives. Especially with acting, the more present and relaxed an actor can be, those are always the best performances. As a director, when it comes to “What’s next?” like, I’ve literally just done a movie and I already want to make it all over again – it was so nice to be in glitter and feathers, how do you top that? But I just have to know to live my life, relax, and it’ll unfold. We also live in a time where there is a lot of pressure to churn out content to feel worth, when that’s not the case.
KS: Obviously having drive, having that fuel, is amazing, but if what you’re doing next is taking you out of what you’re doing now, that’s the tricky part. That’s where I get tripped up and have to bring myself back to the present moment. You’re right, my favourite moments I’ve had as an actor have been the ones that have surprised me. On Showgirl, when you told me to hug Dave [Bautista] for that one take and it wasn’t scripted, I felt like it completely changed the scene. He was surprised, and I was surprised at the tears and balling that involuntary ensued out of hugging Dave Bautista. [laughs] It felt magical, truthful and of the present moment. That’s where the magic happens. I’ve had so many of those moments on Showgirl.

GC: I think sometimes my job is being a prankster and throwing unexpected curveballs at you guys. [both laugh]
KS: It’s the way. There was even that one scene where it was going to be just Pam and you guys were going to cut and reset for another scene in the same room. Then Brenda [Song] and I were back from lunch in our regular clothes and all of a sudden someone decided, “Oh, we’re going to run those two scenes together.” We were rushing and scrambling and I was trying to think what my lines were, then all of a sudden I see Brenda waiting in the wings to walk in and she’s getting ready to cry and I thought, “Oh right, that’s this scene.” It was so completely spontaneous and surprising and gave us little to no time to think – we did it in one take and it was electric. It felt so strong and fuelled. You did an incredible job that entire movie creating spaces for these moments.

GC: I’m grateful to you guys for jumping in and supporting your other actors. Pamela was in the zone and we were like, “We have to keep going, let’s jump into the next scene.”
KS: It felt very low on the ego front, we were all there to make this thing together that we believed in so much.

“I have so many formative memories working [on set], even as a kid I loved it.”

GC: I was going to ask, how do you audition for other projects while you’re on a movie? How do you divide yourself?
KC: It depends on the duration of things. Obviously that comes up, and if it’s a four week shoot in LA, it’s easy enough to [move things around]. But in the same vein as what we were saying before, moments when I don’t have a lot of time to think about something can be when I reach somewhere that’s even more truthful and of the moment.

GC: And maybe it’ll inform something you didn’t even realise.
KS: That’s the thing. I really feel that each project I do changes me and my relationship to my work tremendously. I learn these big lessons. I don’t really have a process for how to balance [auditioning while on another set], because it’s never felt like a huge, huge thing, but if it does come up, I’ll be like, “Let’s rock and roll.” It’s actually good for my headspace to be a little bit warmed up already.

GC: What I notice about you especially is your openness. I called you like, “Do you want to come to Vegas in two weeks? I’m trying to put this together after the strike, do you want to do it?” And you were like, “Let’s go.” I love that about you. It was the perfect project for us to do together. You’re such an open-minded team player.
KS: Aw thanks, my job is made easier by people like you.

GC: What else do you have on your agenda today?
KS: I’ll see my friends tonight, which goes back to trying to live life and be a person in the world while working, because I’ve done the opposite where I go, “No, I take my work very seriously and I’m going to stay in on the weekend.” Sometimes that’s totally necessary, but I think I have a good enough understanding of where I’m at to know when I need to go out, see people, laugh with my friends and do things that feed my soul, and when I need to stay in, watch a movie, listen to music and go to bed early. Tonight is more of the former, so we’ll probably get drinks and then go to a party that’s happening, nothing crazy, full disclosure: I’ll be back by twelve. [both laugh]

GC: I go to bed at like nine these days. [laughs]
KS: What’s happening? How’s the baby?

GC: He’s great, he’s walking.
KS: Oh my gosh! So sweet. What’re you doing today?

GC: I’m going to venture out to Brooklyn and have dinner. It’s really hot here, so I’ve been staying inside.
KS: Will you be there the whole summer?

GC: No, I come home next week. It’s been fun out here feeling the heat. Everyone’s aggro and I love how they just blame the heat like, “Oh, it’s the heatwave.” [both laugh] Normally I’m not a New York person, I don’t really jive with it, but I’ve been enjoying it this trip. But it is getting to the point where I just want to jump into a pool.
KS: I feel like there are a couple of nights in a New York City summer that are just perfection, the sun is set- ting, the sky is orange and pink and it feels like a dream, then other times you’re like, “It’s hot, I need to go!”

GIA: What are the stories that excite you, or what’s something you’d love to do eventually?
KS: Again, I feel like all these things are coming back to being present. I’ve found that the magic in my work has been moments where I’m most present, and working with other actors who have that same goal. I want to work with people who excite me, who challenge me and keep me on my toes. Just being on a set where I’m constantly learning, absorbing. I’d love to sing and dance in something.

GC: Well you’re a good dancer, people are going to get a tiny taste of that.
KS: [laughs] It was fun, I want to do more. Being physical in roles is something I always really enjoy. It’d be really nice to do a real, grounded love story. I always go back to the Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, Before Midnight kind of yearn-core romances, a Past Lives kind of film. Especially now I’m in my mid-twenties and can do it in a way that it feels real to me. Honestly, I just described La La Land. [both laugh]

GC: You’re like musical, dance…
KS: Love story… That is La La Land. [laughs]

GC: I’m a sucker for a heartbreak love story where it doesn’t work out.
KS: Me too.

Interview originally published in Heroine 21. 

hair ADAM MARKARIAN at STREETERS using ORIBE;
make-up MIGUEL RAMOS using MAKEUP FOREVER;
set design GRACE BECK;
photography assistants JAKE SHEPHERD and LAADAN JARRETT;
fashion assistants ZAKKAI JONES and MEGAN YUTZ;
production LESLIEANN SANTIAGO at SUPERVISION NY